Bundled Java vs. external Java and Freeplane 1.3.13

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Bundled Java vs. external Java and Freeplane 1.3.13

Dimitry Polivaev
Administrator
Hi,

I have recently investigated and fixed bug https://sourceforge.net/p/freeplane/bugs/2194/ reporting
Freeplane no longer running under latest Java 1.8.0_25 on MacOS. There is a preview version and we
should release it at least for Mac OS pretty soon.

It turned that the knopflerfish OSGi Library (framework.jar) we used all the time contained a bug :
it returned null instead of throwing an IOException if some resource was not available.

So for handling this bug we can either update the old good Knopflerfish by the new one OR bundling
Java with Freeplane.

Usually Java Applications for Windows and Linux are not bundled with JRE. And usually they do not
get such sudden problems.

However it is recommended to bundle Java with Mac versions to make such problems impossible.

Current Freeplane for Mac uses the latest installed Java version, but because of the reasons I do
not understand it still requires Java 6 to be installed even if it does not use it, otherwise the OS
fails to start the Freeplane app completely.

Mac is always something different.

So let me ask you arising questions.

Should we bundle Java with Freeplane for Mac?
Should we bundle Java with Freeplane for Windows?
Current Freeplane starting script for Mac uses the last installed Java version.
Should I change it to prefer Java 6 over Java 8?

Should we fix Freeplane if it becomes incompatible with latest Java releases or just bundle it with
older Java version where it seems to work fine?

Regards,
Dimitry

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Re: Bundled Java vs. external Java and Freeplane 1.3.13

Volker Börchers
Administrator
Hi Dimitry,

Am 30.10.2014 um 15:29 schrieb Dimitry Polivaev [via Freeplane Developer]:

> So for handling this bug we can either update the old good Knopflerfish
> by the new one OR bundling
> Java with Freeplane.
>
> Usually Java Applications for Windows and Linux are not bundled with
> JRE. And usually they do not
> get such sudden problems.
>
> However it is recommended to bundle Java with Mac versions to make such
> problems impossible.
>
> Current Freeplane for Mac uses the latest installed Java version, but
> because of the reasons I do
> not understand it still requires Java 6 to be installed even if it does
> not use it, otherwise the OS
> fails to start the Freeplane app completely.
>
> Mac is always something different.
>
> So let me ask you arising questions.
>
> Should we bundle Java with Freeplane for Mac?
> Should we bundle Java with Freeplane for Windows?

As far as I understood we don't have any severe problems with Java
versions other than on Mac so it seems that we shouldn't change anything
for Windows and Linux.

> Current Freeplane starting script for Mac uses the last installed Java
> version.
> Should I change it to prefer Java 6 over Java 8?
>
> Should we fix Freeplane if it becomes incompatible with latest Java
> releases or just bundle it with
> older Java version where it seems to work fine?

I don't understand enough about these Mac peculiarities to judge. I
generally think that we should keep up with the latest Java version but
if Mac is so special then we could employ any special means to get
Freeplane on Mac running - bundling Java, change preferences, ... -
whatever works best.

Regards,
Volker
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Re: Bundled Java vs. external Java and Freeplane 1.3.13

Felix Natter
Administrator
"Volker Börchers [via Freeplane Developer]"
<[hidden email]> writes:

> Hi Dimitry,

hello Dimitry, hello Volker,

> Am 30.10.2014 um 15:29 schrieb Dimitry Polivaev [via Freeplane Developer]:
>
>> So for handling this bug we can either update the old good Knopflerfish
>> by the new one OR bundling
>> Java with Freeplane.
>>
>> Usually Java Applications for Windows and Linux are not bundled with
>> JRE. And usually they do not
>> get such sudden problems.
>>
>> However it is recommended to bundle Java with Mac versions to make such
>> problems impossible.
>>
>> Current Freeplane for Mac uses the latest installed Java version, but
>> because of the reasons I do
>> not understand it still requires Java 6 to be installed even if it does
>> not use it, otherwise the OS
>> fails to start the Freeplane app completely.
>>
>> Mac is always something different.
>>
>> So let me ask you arising questions.
>>
>> Should we bundle Java with Freeplane for Mac?
>> Should we bundle Java with Freeplane for Windows?
>
> As far as I understood we don't have any severe problems with Java
> versions other than on Mac so it seems that we shouldn't change anything
> for Windows and Linux.

+1

>> Current Freeplane starting script for Mac uses the last installed Java
>> version.
>> Should I change it to prefer Java 6 over Java 8?
>>
>> Should we fix Freeplane if it becomes incompatible with latest Java
>> releases or just bundle it with
>> older Java version where it seems to work fine?
>
> I don't understand enough about these Mac peculiarities to judge. I
> generally think that we should keep up with the latest Java version but
> if Mac is so special then we could employ any special means to get
> Freeplane on Mac running - bundling Java, change preferences, ... -
> whatever works best.

Maybe just leave it as is and add instructions to the wiki in case of
problems? (depends on how often that problem occurs...).

Ok, I realize the java8 problem always occurs => I opt for creating Mac
only bugfix releases, ("freeplane mac bug fix/..."), I don't think this
will confuse users too much.

Best Regards,
--
Felix Natter
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Re: Bundled Java vs. external Java and Freeplane 1.3.13

Dimitry Polivaev
Administrator
In reply to this post by Volker Börchers
>> Should we fix Freeplane if it becomes incompatible with latest Java
>> releases or just bundle it with
>> older Java version where it seems to work fine?
>
> I don't understand enough about these Mac peculiarities to judge. I
> generally think that we should keep up with the latest Java version but
> if Mac is so special then we could employ any special means to get
> Freeplane on Mac running - bundling Java, change preferences, ... -
> whatever works best.
>

It is nothing special but recommendations.
Sometimes new Java versions lead to broken functionality.
Therefore Mac Apps usually use bundled Java as it is recommended by Apple and I wanted us to discuss
this idea.

For now I did as usual and fixed the problem coming with Java 1.8u25 on MacOS, so currently
everything is all right (in 1.3.13_02 or later).

Regards,
Dimitry
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Re: Bundled Java vs. external Java and Freeplane 1.3.13

Dimitry Polivaev
Administrator
In reply to this post by Felix Natter
> Ok, I realize the java8 problem always occurs => I opt for creating Mac
> only bugfix releases, ("freeplane mac bug fix/..."), I don't think this
> will confuse users too much.

What do you mean? IMHO all 1.3.x releases are bug fix releases.
So I would just release 1.3.13 ASAP.
We do not have to create also linux and windows versions,
but as I have fixed a bug annoying Volker today, may be it is better to do it.
Actually I suggest that we release the 1.3.13 for MacOS first and for the rest OS a bit later so
that Mac users who really need the fix are also our beta testers.

Regards,
Dimitry

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Re: Bundled Java vs. external Java and Freeplane 1.3.13

Volker Börchers
Administrator
Hi,

this sounds like a good plan! And, Dimitry, many thanks for the bug fix! :-)

Regards,
Volker

Am 01.11.2014 um 11:34 schrieb Dimitry Polivaev [via Freeplane Developer]:

>  > Ok, I realize the java8 problem always occurs => I opt for creating Mac
>  > only bugfix releases, ("freeplane mac bug fix/..."), I don't think this
>  > will confuse users too much.
>
> What do you mean? IMHO all 1.3.x releases are bug fix releases.
> So I would just release 1.3.13 ASAP.
> We do not have to create also linux and windows versions,
> but as I have fixed a bug annoying Volker today, may be it is better to
> do it.
> Actually I suggest that we release the 1.3.13 for MacOS first and for
> the rest OS a bit later so
> that Mac users who really need the fix are also our beta testers.
>
> Regards,
> Dimitry
>
>
>
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Re: Bundled Java vs. external Java and Freeplane 1.3.13

Felix Natter
Administrator
In reply to this post by Dimitry Polivaev
"Dimitry Polivaev [via Freeplane Developer]"
<[hidden email]> writes:

>> Ok, I realize the java8 problem always occurs => I opt for creating Mac
>> only bugfix releases, ("freeplane mac bug fix/..."), I don't think this
>> will confuse users too much.
>
> What do you mean? IMHO all 1.3.x releases are bug fix releases.
> So I would just release 1.3.13 ASAP.
> We do not have to create also linux and windows versions,
> but as I have fixed a bug annoying Volker today, may be it is better to do it.
> Actually I suggest that we release the 1.3.13 for MacOS first and for the rest OS a bit
> later so
> that Mac users who really need the fix are also our beta testers.

What version of knopflerfish did you commit now? Debian uses 2.3.3 (but
I won't package 1.3.13 anytime soon due to code freeze).

Please add the exact version of libraries to upgrade commit messages
going forward (71ef81a44bac3db92072e2a0fcd7e114a6c088e5 misses this).

Thanks and Best Regards,
--
Felix Natter
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Re: Bundled Java vs. external Java and Freeplane 1.3.13

Dimitry Polivaev
Administrator
> What version of knopflerfish did you commit now? Debian uses 2.3.3 (but
> I won't package 1.3.13 anytime soon due to code freeze).

I do not undertand your numbering scheme. I use http://www.knopflerfish.org/releases/5.1.0/
>
> Please add the exact version of libraries to upgrade commit messages
> going forward (71ef81a44bac3db92072e2a0fcd7e114a6c088e5 misses this).

OK.

I have investigated another problem for Mac Launcher: our current configuration requires Java 1.6 to
be installed even if it is not used. I know how to change it: we should use Oracle appbundler
generated mac configuration file. I think it were better to change it and to release 1.3.14 with the
change, otherwise users have to install Java 1.6 as a workaround.

Agreed?

Regards,
Dimitry





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Re: Bundled Java vs. external Java and Freeplane 1.3.13

Felix Natter
Administrator
"Dimitry Polivaev [via Freeplane Developer]"
<[hidden email]> writes:

hi Dimitry,

>> What version of knopflerfish did you commit now? Debian uses 2.3.3 (but
>> I won't package 1.3.13 anytime soon due to code freeze).
>
> I do not undertand your numbering scheme. I use http://www.knopflerfish.org/releases/5.1.0/
>>
>> Please add the exact version of libraries to upgrade commit messages
>> going forward (71ef81a44bac3db92072e2a0fcd7e114a6c088e5 misses this).
>
> OK.
>
> I have investigated another problem for Mac Launcher: our current configuration requires Java 1.6 to
> be installed even if it is not used. I know how to change it: we should use Oracle appbundler
> generated mac configuration file. I think it were better to change it and to release 1.3.14 with the
> change, otherwise users have to install Java 1.6 as a workaround.
>
> Agreed?

I agree as I (almost) do not have stakes in Freeplane for Mac and your
suggestion sounds good.

Have a nice weekend!

Thanks and Best Regards,
--
Felix Natter
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